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kraut
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1743
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: Misc. other notes |
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in another threat to one of the believers, there was a test with a confirmed goldenear, ein Herr Gemkow, conducted in Vienna with disastrous results for the poor soul. I post a babelfish translation here, which I try to clean up, time permitting:
| Quote: | Babel Fish Translation Help
In English:
provided: 22. February 2006, 16:52 BLIND TEST WEEKEND WITH HIFIAKTIV IN VIENNA Accomplished of me (David Messinger, HiFi asset) Heinrich (Quintonrecords) and Wolfgang on 18 and 19 February 2006.
Introduction
Already for years there are heated discussions, to what extent the wiring of HiFi effects the final result. Apart from the signal prominent cables also increasingly the importance of the mains cables is stressed.
Also possibly existing digital connections should be determining sound.
There are still these discussions in several German HiFi forums. Probably there are also in innumerable other countries. Only recently this topic in another German forum was begun.
The unbelievable statement of a forum participant ensured that it came to this blind test action. As venue HiFi Aktiv in Vienna was selected. As a test person a recognized manufacturer of cables, who is supposed to have unusually good hearing, explained himself ready. His name is Goetz Gemkow.
One of the conditions of Mr. Gemkow was that the test plant is equipped completely with his cables. Also for the power supply distribution. Mr. Gemkow was absolutely sure that he can recognize immediately, if one of his cables is exchanged for an unknown in the chain.
Also Mr. Gemkow stressed many times, as an experienced man with blind test experience and that he will not be stressed by the testing situation. He calims he has so far with such tests always has an extremely high hit rate of usually 100%.
A forum member, Mr. Werner (He suggested Mr. Gemkow as the subject) confirmed this several times. Mr. Gemkow traveled on Friday with his life companion, in order to be fit for the two days following. Mr. Gemkow already decided in preceding telephone calls the following test components: CD Player: Accuphase DP-67 full amplifier: Accuphase E-408 loudspeaker boxes: B&W 800D
The structure of test was arranged in such a way that before Mr. Gemkow only stood the two loudspeakers. The cables led by an open door into the area where the electronics was kept. About 5 meters long speaker cables were necessary.
That was the express desire of the Mr. Gemkow, because he did not want to have affected the electronics by the sound pressure of the boxes.
The electronic components rested on an even surface and the switching by hand was done by David Messinger and on the other hand by Wolfgang (on/off/swiytching of the devices). Mr. Schlaefer had the task to observe everything as a "notary" and to document the results as specified by Mr. Gemkow. The Mr. Gemkow life companion was accompanying all tests with us in the secondary room, where one changed and one wrote. She observed thus everything exactly also.
There was on her part never any objection, because everything was conducted absolutely correctl. She even partly helped actively. By means of a dice it was decided (with 1-3 cable A was selected and with 4-6 cables B) with which cable the respective test passage was begun. Afterwards, as much as possible could be switched between A and B back until Mr. Gemkow made his decision.
Then again with the dice the beginning for the passage 2 decided etc....... It was planned to make first 10 passages and to break off the test in the case of at least 9 hits (the statistic minimum for a clear proof). For further confirmation however at least still another further test block should follow.
If the result should be not clear after 10 repetitions still, we wanted to make further to 20. In this case then at least 15 hits would be necessary, in order to call the test successfully. To these 20 passages it however never came, because Mr. Gemkow partly let be switched up to 20 times (!), before he made a decision.
With a 10er passage we again and again again and started thus about 70 - 80 times to change and restart the music piece. That was extremely laborious!
That of "clear" audibility no one could speak of was already apparent after the first test. Mr. Gemkow wanted to break after 10 passages before continuing.
The results were kept secret to the end of the test, so no discouriging influence of bad results would be exerted. Mr. Gemkow had time sufficient time in advance to prepare, in order to listen in itself to the electronics and the acoustic conditions. Mr. Gemkow used his music for the time being, took then however a CD's of Heinrich.
The listening level corresponded was slightly igher than usual "room level". Mr. Gemkow had very best conditions, in order to prove his statements. He confirmed so before beginning of the tests. We examined his cables for the most important parameters (resistance, capacity and transmission range and/or linearity). There was nothing to complain of.
The official part Test passage 1 (Saturday afternoon) mains cable (as per Mr. Gemkow its speciality). One compared with usual mains cables, like it today practically all electronic components to be enclosed (value about 2-3 euro). Were exchanged always both the mains cable of the CD Player and by the full amplifier.
Mr. Gemkov used his power distribution box, for the standard cables we used an pprox.. 25 years distributor with plastic housing used (see picture). The devices were always correctly polarized (Mr. Gemkow attached great importance to it). http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/stromkabel1.jpg http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/stromkabel2.jpg Mr. Gemkow obtained 6 hits with the first passage and with the second (very lengthy) passage of 8 hits. Heinrich wanted then "also once" and gave up after 7 passages with the words "senselessly, I can only guess/advise". At this time it had 3 hits. Wolfgang wanted then also still. It completed the 10 passages with 6 hits. ----------------------------------------------------------
Test passage of 2 (Sunday early) Mr. Gemkow's digital cables (extremely short!) against a cheap "NO name" finished cable (value approx.. 5 euro, see picture). http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/digitalkabel.jpg Mr. Gemkow obtained 4 hits with the first passage and with the second passage of 5 hits. ----------------------------------------------------------
Test passage 3 Cinchkabel. One compared with an extremely primitive cable, like it usual way with cheap Far East products as link connection to the system remote maintenance one encloses (value max. about 0.5 euro, see picture). http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/cinchkabel.jpg Mr. Gemkow decided in this case for another test variant, which makes only 1 cable necessary: only one channel of the test plant was used accordingly to its desire and thus also only one box was alluded. It sat down with the armchair directly before the one box. With only approx. 20cm distance to the Mitteltoener it wanted to be able to hear the differences more clearly than otherwise. During the first passage Mr. Gemkow 3 hit obtained and with the second passage 4 hits. ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------
On my special desire we then - for the time being unplanned - still another comparison test with two extreme representatives from the range accomplished full amplifiers. Test passage 5: Emitter1 exclusive one (approx. 6,500 euro, 50 Kilos) against Arcam A-65 (650 euro, 5.5 Kilos) at a pair B&W 800D (accurate level reconciliation one accomplished!). At the emitter the desired hearing volume was stopped for the time being. At the display that was the number of 42. With test CD was then played the standard tuning tone A (440 cycles per second) with -10dB and the tension (with attached boxes) was measured. 4.35 V resulted. Then the Arcam was taken in enterprise and adjusted hair-exactly at it the same tensions. Unfortunately it was necessary to deactivate the direct key because the balance automatic controller became necessary (inaccuracy of the potentiometer). In this position also the sound automatic controllers are activated, thus "worst maps" for the Arcam. Then again longer a hearing phase - and it went loosely. http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/verstaerkertest1.jpg http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/verstaerkertest1a.jpg http://members.chello.at/david.messinger/verstaerkertest2.jpg Mr. Gemkow obtained 4 hits with the first passage and with the second passage of 2 hits (!). with the second passage wanted he the Arcam at his extremely thick mains cable to have attached (see picture). Heinrich started and already in the apron gave then also an attempt up ("can no differences hear, would have again guess/advise"). Also Wolfgang (he is proud owner emitter 2 exclusive ones) has tries differences to hear, also gave up however then. ---------------------------------------------------------- That's it. How laborious and lengthy everything was, one cannot without having been, imagine. The long a hearing phases, the lengthy music selection, many tracing between them and above all the unbelievably often times shift up and down and/or and put were already quite zermuerbend. Everyone of the present persons gave their best. Here thank you against Heinrich and Wolfgang. Finally it must be unfortunately said that not one these blind tests it could furnish the proof that there are klangliche differences between cables. Me was already in the Vorhinein clear, where I had nevertheless already tested hundreds people before "unsuccessfully". I did not accomplish blind tests with amplifiers before ever. This experience made now does not surprise me however really, because I always already the opinion was that - so long amplifiers performance-related not to be made excessive demands of - there are no significant differences between them. Greeting David ________ If the photograph quality is bad, helps nothing at all more. If the room acoustics is bad, only physical measures, the use of electronic devices do not help bring (nearly) anything. Diaphragm surface can be replaced by nothing, except by still more diaphragm surface. Passive loudspeaker boxes contain insurmountable quality-restraining hurdles, which there are not with actively operated boxes. COMMERCIAL PARTICIPANT [ contribution of hifiaktiv on 22 February 2006, 17:37 works on
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I'm into hifi - Trusting your senses alone is like trusting economists. |
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digital
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 1673
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much Kraut! Oddly, after having read many of these translations: French & German to name but a few, I'm getting the hang of making sense of these messed up wordings 
This unsighted evaluation was very well done and time-tolerant. I am always happy to see more documented events in these pages, thanx’ for adding to the list! Perhaps someday we’ll get more audiophiles to come around to a common sense approach to the hobby and actually try unsighted evaluations for themselves.
It’s the [only] way they will ever learn the truth.
Andrew D.
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